Where Are The WNs?

[tyrannos]

funk said:

[note: Theres more sand in Israel than Lebanon which would make Neo-con ignorance even funnier.]

There's no desert in Lebanon at all actually, making Lebanese Sand-Nigger an oxymoron.

There's deserts in Iberia though..

[Jack]

lusitania said:

Even the Neo-cons have a very jingoistic attitude towards the Christian Lebanese.
WNs are one thing but the Neo-cons are the ones that the Lebanese have to worry about IMO.

It's not just the Lebanese. The whole world should be concerned about them.

[lusitania]

The whole Israel/Lebanon affair really had me confused. The Neo-Con supporters supported this thing no matter what even when Christian Lebanese children were getting killed. I thought Neo-Cons were concerned with wanting to convert all of the Near-East to Christianity but when they kill Near-Eastern Christians I guess that can't be the case. If they are willing to kill Christian children and call it collateral damage for Israel then we know that there is a broad geo-political agenda. They support Israel with zeal no matter what and it's like Israel thinks they can get away with it by playing the Holocaust card. Israel gets away with so much crap that regular UN members can't because of Holocaust sympathy. It's disgraceful.

Here's an example of how corrupt Israel's relationship is with the UN. In Israel for eg. Jews can't marry non-Jews and everyone kisses Israel's ass but when South Africa had apartheid, everyone was sanctioning South Africa's ass. Why does Israel get preferential treatment? Israel deserves no sympathy for the shit they get themselves into. If Israel didn't have all those funds and nukes from the US, they would have been crushed by the Arab and Islamic World political powers by now. I would like to see a fair fight between Israel (without all the stuff US gave them) and the Arab and Islamic World.

[Funk Monk]

It was ridiculous, they didn't only target Hizballah, they just bombed everywhere. Even a tiny, really tiny, bridge in our village in North Lebanon, along the Syrian border, around here (no Hizballah in the North):

The bridge was bombed, people went to see what had happened, and then the fighter plane returned, bombed the bridge again, killing these men and boys:

That's a big loss to a small village.

[lusitania]

Yikes. Eleven people.

[drooperdoo]

Lusitania,
I understand Israel's position and have at least some sympathy for it. I mean, you called for a "fair fight" between Israel and the surrounding nations. But how can you have a fair fight between a nation of 6 million and a Muslim world of a billion people?
The statistics are not exactly stacked in Israel's favor. That being the case, OF COURSE they're going to rely on scamming, nukes, and media relations to shore up support for their tiny country.
For all that, though, even Jews admit that--demographically--their position is increasingly untenable.

What is more inexplicable to me are the so-called Christian Zionists who cheer Israel no matter what--even when the Jewish state murders innocent Christians in Lebanon. If these "Christian" Zionists were really Christians, how come they put up such little outcry when Israel purposely targetted civilian infrastructure and killed Christians???

It's clear that they're not real Christians . . . but, then, that should have been obvious when they betrayed the teachings of Jesus and took up the militaristic ideology of Caesar. As one pundit perspecaciously observed, "So many of these law-and-order 'Christians' seem stuck in the Old Testament's teachings of war and intolerance. They never seem to quote the New Testament. So, by that definition, how are they 'Christians'?As stuck in the Old Testament as they are, they're more like Jews."
Indeed!
Pharisees.

[lusitania]

It's true that Israel is small but when they have all those weapons and nukes, they could take out the whole Arab and Islamic World all by themselves. Not to mention that the US would never allow Israel to fight alone. With all the firepower Israel has, they still feel the need to cry to the US and other major powers to help them out to avoid a "second Holocaust". Between this and the international movement to make Holocaust Revisionism illegal (in Italy they recently passed a law now making it illegal there along with some other things), Israel comes off as some international tyrant. How many tiny countries in the world have as much political influence in the world like Israel? I'm sick of their whining about anti-semitism and their use of fears of Holocaust II to justify their actions in the Near-East. The Near-East has every right to be pissed off with Israel. I could care less if Israel is the "Chosen land", this is just an example of how religion (Christianity) is used by Neo-Con war hawks to control ciizens and acquire their consent.

[Bilaad Binti]

Lusitania what you dont seem to understand is that Israel, inspite its Jewishness and inspite the almost expectant anti-semitism of Europeans/Westerners....That Israel IS a Western nation. While Lebanon, inspite of its substantial christian population, or inspite of the fact that the swarthier, 'groid influenced folk are more like Palestinian refugees (like theyre sooo different :rolleyes:) That Lebanese is part of the Arab sphere...thats the Orient...the anti-west.

Im not seeing it this way, but most Westerners, and particularly hawkish neo-cons see the world as this way. Race/religion plays little part in it.

[lusitania]

Yeah you are right. It's not about religion but it's about western civilization bias. The West (or at least the Neo-con hawks) sees Israel as Western civilization's "ambassador to the Middle-East." My perspective differs I guess because I do not see the Jews as being "closer" to us than the Lebanese. I've known a fair amount of Lebanese and other Arabs in Canada and noticed them to be very educated, intelligent, well-mannered citizens that place a lot of emphasis on family. The Lebanese easily blend in when mingling with the "Meds" but the Jews seem to be more like the WASPs. There seems to be a WASP/Jewish connection in the socio-elite. So this is probably why I see things differently from how many in the West do and why I don't have a Pro-Israel bias like many.

[drooperdoo]

Historically, in the United States and Canada, Lebanese immigrants had better assimilation rates than Jews. Why? --The Lebanese were Christians, Jews were not.

That sounds like a small thing, but-when you're talking about the 19th and early 20th Centuries, when the world was much more pious--it had a profound effect.

Jews were clannish, kept to themselves--and, because of that, they were largely held in distrust.

When they started prattling about their superiority and being "Chosen," and all that garbage, it made it even worse for them with surrounding Christian host-populations. And, lastly, when so many of the Jews from Eastern European countries carried on with Bolshevism and socialism from the Old Country, they alienated themselves even more.

Look at Lebanese-Christians from the same period: When Jews were being lynched [in the 1920s in Georgia] and later during the Civil Rights movement in the South, not a single Lebanese was singled out for anything.

Lebanese people had [and have] higher college-graduation rates and business-ownership rates than surrounding Anglo-Saxon populations. Moreover, they were under-represented in mental hospital enrollment rates and prison incarceration rates.

The long and the short of it: Lebanese assimilated better because they were Christian, good citizens and quiet.

Jews (who had so much in common with the Lebanese, phenotype-wise, education-wise, business-wise) fared slightly less so because they were a different religion, involved themselves in the Civil Rights movment, became vocal advocates of Bolshevism [in the 1900s] and anarchism [with such firebrands as Emma Goldman, Eugene V. Debbs, etc.]

The Lebanese generally behaved themselves, and blended in.

[lusitania]

Exactly. The Lebanese were model citizens in the United States and yet look at how they are repaid.

The Palestinian refugee "Lebs" in Australia are not THAT different from the Lebanese but they were the ones whom were misbehaving there. It's not fair to single out the "Lebs" when the Lebanese diaspora have behaved like model citizens in every country they settled in. I very much doubt the case is any different in Australia.

The Jewish community (not all jews but the community leaders) however never shut up about the Holocaust, anti-semitism, etc. The Jews are an affluent, privileged group in American society and make up a good portion of the socio-elite with the WASPs and yet their community spokespeople always want more. Abe Foxman LIVES on identity politics and "anti-semitism". On top of this they call anyone who doesn't support Israel an "anti-semite" or "Nazi". This is more than enough for me to take issue with Israel and the Jewish community leaders (whom make the good Jews look bad) and be more sympathetic to the Lebanese, whom behave themselves. Blacks complain a lot too but at least they actually are "down" to a degree in society. Considering the affluence that Jews have, they are even worse than the Blacks and Hispanics playing identity politics.

[drooperdoo]

Lusitania,
The Lebanese in Australia are NOT the Lebanese who immigrated to the United States and Canada for one massive reason--they're not Christian.
The old Lebanese were almost wholly Christian. In recent decades, Muslims have been taking over Lebanon. Killing Christians. Usurping power.

I saw a Lebanese girl on C-Span talk about how the Muslims muscled in like thugs. A lot of the so-called new "Lebanese" are refugees from Israel--Palestinians. Hundreds of thousands poured into Lebanon and didn't assimilate. Instead, they started taking over: Having roadside checks. If your papers said "Christian" they'd slaughter you and your family.

Tens of thousands of Christians went into hiding. This girl on C-Span said that for 3 years, her family lived in a cave.

So the original Lebanese--who assimilated because they were Christian--are different from the anti-social Muslim gangs in Australia, who are radicalized, alienated. Etc.

This dichotomy backs up what I was saying before about Jews and Lebanese in America--and how religion played a massive role in assimilation. It mustn't be discounted or minimized.

Because it's proven between the two factions of the Lebanese community today: How Christian Lebanese people are respected and loved in America [from Ralph Nader to Danny Thomas, to football player Doug Flutie, etc] and how they're loathed in Australia, as they go around raping Australian women, calling them whores for not dressing conservatively, disrespecting them. You read about the same behavior of Muslims in Scandinavian countries and France. There's a Scandinavian poster on here that said that boys started airily referring to girls as "whores," "sluts" and worse, when the Muslim kids started migrating in and doing it. The newcomers' attitude toward Western girls was perverse and disgusting. I read an article in France about girls in Paris feeling like they have to dress frumpily and walk in groups, lest roving gangs of Muslims find them and harass them--or worse. They live in fear in their own nations because of this riffraff.
That's why it hurts me to speak to Australian friends and to see that these barbarians are behaving the same way there--and that they're blackening the good name of the Lebanese people. These fake Lebanese Muslims co-opting the identity of the original Lebanese Christians.


* Footnote: Regarding the take-over of Lebanon by Muslims, one Israeli ambassador said that that sent a chill through Israel. Seeing how they muscled their way into Lebanon, took up arms and destabilized the whole nation, the Israelis [legitimately] fear the same demographic nightmare happening within her borders.

[lusitania]

Yep that is what I have been saying. They are mostly refugees from Palestine that have settled into Lebanon but they call themselves "Lebs". That is why the Lebanese have such a bad reputation in Australia. The Lebanese were originally Christian (mostly Maronite) but with the spread of Islam in the country, the import of refugees from Palestine and some other places, and the mass exodus of Christian Lebanese to other countries, things have changed. The Christian Lebanese diaspora is quite large.

This is why I find the Neo-Con support for Israel in Lebanon to be quite sick. The mainly Christian Lebanese have done so much for our societies and yet they are repaid by having their Christian Lebanese brethern (many of whom children) killed in their ethnic homeland.

[annienormanna]

Chrisitian Phalange militia were supported by Israel. The Sabra-Shatila massacre was one brutal result of this.

[lusitania]

Yeah Israel supported the Maronite milita in 1982 but with the recent Israel-Hezbollah conflicts, they ended up pissing off a lot of Christian Lebanese for killing their civilians. Nice going Israel.