Are Berbers the only ones indigenous to North Afri

[Mike the Jedi]

Pure Berbers? You mean the ones that look the most French? lol... the Sahara wasn't always there, you know.

[Cameo]

No, Berber is only a language family and the skeletal remains yield a variety of affinities.

[Clemo]

caucasoidintifada said:

North Africa? I believe pure Berbers are the true indigenous ones to North Africa and all others are descendents of either migrations or slavery.

Take a look at this rock art from Tassili n'Ajjer in Algeria. These paintings are both from the same time period of about 3,000 b.p.



So even then the Sahara was full of diverse groups. If you go back even further, you can find

Med. warriors


Black warriors


Check out these guys, more Meds.


Now this picture is 5000 years old.


Source www.paleologos.com/saharaan.htm excellent site.

[Cameo]

Some of those lighter people look like Fulani.

[Clemo]

rigaud said:

Some of those lighter people look like Fulani.

The author of the site compares some of these paintings with modern Bororo (Wodaabe) from the area..

[Cameo]

clemo said:

rigaud said:

Some of those lighter people look like Fulani.

The author of the site compares some of these paintings with modern Bororo (Wodaabe) from the area..

True indeed, Bororo are nomadic Fulani.

[Mike the Jedi]

Well, in art, it's often difficult to distinguish Meds from Aethiopoid-featured people anyway... (lol... just look at Egypt!)



It's hard because Meds can tan, reaching dark shades comparable to the natural skin color of Sahelian and Saharan blacks like the Fulani woman above. So some of those depictions are going to be ambiguous. It doesn't help matter that both of the types in question are usually fine-featured and gracile (I think). Some of them are pretty clear, though.

I just find it amusing when Berter casually labels the type of people like this:


As Capsian Mediterranoids when they could just as easily be elongated Peuhl types. No offense to Berter, but to me that just speaks to the "what I want to see" mentality.

It's pretty obvious, however, what these are:



But anyway, this is one of those issues that I agree with Charlie on. I hope the Berbers don't get offended.

[Mike the Jedi]

Hakim is just one type of Berber. Berbers come in many shades, and no, I don't think every instance of a black Berber is due to the slave trade.

What I find most interesting is how notoriously fair the Libyans were in antiquity...



No way do most Berbers look like that today. According to most people (including Berbers I've spoken to), the blond and rufous element among Berbers (even Atlas Berbers) is overplayed. Most have regular Mediterranean pigmentation like Hakim. Which is why the fair Libyans depicted in the Egyptian murals for instance strike me as curious. One would think the typical Tehesu would have been painted with the exact same hair pigmentation as the Syrian or even the same general color as the Egyptian. Instead with the pale skin and light brown (even blondish hair) they look rather European. In any case, the Egyptians depicted something that does not strike me as Saharid. And it's hard to believe the Cromagnoid element with more tendency to depigmentation would've been that numerous.

[Mike the Jedi]

Speaking of Egyptians, I thought the Moroccan actor Aharon Ipalé was fantastically believable as the Pharaoh in the Mummy movies. Here he is in all his glory:

[sayadon]

caucasoidintifada said:

I am not saying he is the only phenotype of Berbers but I believe his would be the most common amongst pure Berbers. He is Egyptian, however he proves the great Berber prescence in ancient Egypt.

I can't help laughing whenever I see Hakim's picture in a race discussion.

Hakim (as a singer) sux imo. Off topic? Maybe, but a lot more relevant to reality than this thread.

[Cameo]

I wonder, which criteria is that crazy woman using to denote a "pure Berber"? Even some of the lighest Berbers carry sub-Saharan, European and Near Eastern ineages.

[Mike the Jedi]

Evidently she means Berbers who look like Berter. Or this:




^ you can see a little black girl in there, though





As opposed to those who look like this:




In other words, the Tuaregs aren't real Berbers because some of them look black. Riiiight. It may be easy to write off the sub-Saharan component in Tuaregs as recent admixture involving the slave trade since the Ahaggar is right next door to the Sahel, but probably not so easy with the more isolated Siwa Berbers:



Check out this Berber family from Morocco:

Dad looks the epitome of Caucasoid. But check out the daughter. I think the nasal root and intraorbital distance may speak for itself, but others may disagree. Maybe she's really just a Berid type.

I don't know how important blacks are among non-Taureg Libyans. And I don't want to piss off the Berbers here. Nor do I want them to think I'm blackwashing North Africa. So all I want to say is this: in my opinion, attributing sub-Saharan features in Berbers exclusively to the slave trade is rather naive. And not very realistic.

[Cameo]

So all I want to say is this: in my opinion, attributing sub-Saharan features in Berbers exclusively to the slave trade is rather naive. And not very realistic.

using slavery as the only explanation also goes against the genetic evidence

[Mike the Jedi]

I think you meant to post what you just said in the Palestinian kids thread.

[Cameo]

caucasoidintifada said:

Look at the contrast between them and people like me and Funk's family. Does that not prove anything? It proves we are of better lineage ;D

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