Ancient Warrior Found in Permafrost

[Clemo]

Russian Archaeologists Discover Remains of Ancient Chieftain in Altai Permafrost

MosNews

Russian archaeologists have uncovered the 2000-year-old remains of a warrior preserved intact in permafrost in the Altai mountains region, the Rossiiskaya Gazeta daily reported.

The warrior was blond had tattoos on his body. He was wearing a felt coat with sable fur trimmings and was buried in a wooden frame containing drawings of mythological creatures with an icepick beside him, the paper said.

Local archaeologists believe the man was part of the ruling elite of a local nomadic tribe known as the Pazyryk. Numerous other Pazyryk tombs have been found in the area.

“This is definitely a very serious discovery. It’s incredibly lucky that the burial was in permafrost so it was very well preserved,” Alexei Tishkin, an Altai archaeologist, was quoted as saying.
www.mosnews.com/news/2007/01/10/ancienttomb.shtml

What the article doesn't mention is the Pazyryk culture has been identified as Scythian.

Pazyryk valley is the site of the "ice maiden" and other fair haired mummies burried in the kurgans.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk

(Europe section? move it if you want, maybe to Asia)

[Anodyne]

clemo said:

The warrior was blond had tattoos on his body. He was wearing a felt coat with sable fur trimmings and was buried in a wooden frame containing drawings of mythological creatures with an icepick beside him, the paper said.

Local archaeologists believe the man was part of the ruling elite of a local nomadic tribe known as the Pazyryk. Numerous other Pazyryk tombs have been found in the area.

What the article doesn't mention is the Pazyryk culture has been identified as Scythian.

Pazyryk valley is the site of the "ice maiden" and other fair haired mummies burried in the kurgans.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk

Isn't there a debate of whether the people of the Kurgan culture were Nordid, or Cromagnids?

(Europe section? move it if you want, maybe to Asia)

It's fine here.

[Clemo]

This particular find is about 2000 years old. By this time the Pazyryk population had hybridized, even including mongolid elements.

[annienormanna]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pazyryk

The maiden's well-preserved body, carefully embalmed with peat and bark, was arranged to lie on her side as if asleep. She was young; her hair was still blonde; she had been 5 feet 6 inches tall. Even the animal style tattoos were preserved on her pale skin: creatures with horns that develop into flowered forms.

Trypillian imagery. Flowering birds, fish, and dogs, eminating as horns from a figure:



This image is perhaps 4,000 years old.

[Fred]

ayndostoy said:

Isn't there a debate of whether the people of the Kurgan culture were Nordid, or Cromagnids?

They were Cro-Magnoids, about which there is no debate.

What you may be referring to is the "debate" among Nordicists as to whether the true Proto-Indo-Europeans were Nordids, which, as you might expect, typically reaches only one recurrent conclusion.

[mjora]

@frederick:As a linguist did you ever work on scythian lannguage and/ or did you ever read any study about it ?

[Fred]

I must admit I have not. I'm only very well read in typology and Celtic at this point, with some additional knowledge of matters in Germanic linguistics.

[mjora]

users.cwnet.com/millenia/scytha.html
users.cwnet.com/millenia/scythgod.htm
users.cwnet.com/millenia/medescyth.html
users.cwnet.com/millenia/scythwrd.html

Could you axamine these links and tell me what do you think about the studies and the author of them Hungarian linguist Fred Hamori.

And I gave some links in HBD in Proto -Germanic genetics thread regarding Cromagnids did you read them ? If you did could you tell me what do you think about them ?

[Fred]

I'm really not qualified to judge his work. All I can tell you is that only a small minority of scholars believe they were of Turkic origin. But, that doesn't mean it isn't possible, since just a brief look at the problems involved with identifying them as Iranian is enough to cause reserve.

About the links you gave in the other thread, I have to say they don't appear to go to the work of good scholars. Both of their hypotheses, originated long ago by others, have been demonstrated by many of the brightest in the field to lead precisely nowhere.

[mjora]

fred said:

I'm really not qualified to judge his work. All I can tell you is that only a small minority of scholars believe they were of Turkic origin. But, that doesn't mean it isn't possible, since just a brief look at the problems involved with identifying them as Iranian is enough to cause reserve.

He is not claiming that Scythians were Turkic.He thinks they were originally mesopotamians but later their culture had been adopted by Turks before Indo-Europeans.He thinks that Turks are successors of Mesopotamian ? Royal Scythians.

fred said:

About the links you gave in the other thread, I have to say they don't appear to go to the work of good scholars. Both of their hypotheses, originated long ago by others, have been demonstrated by many of the brighest in the field to lead precisely nowhere.

Did you ever read anything about the old language that found in Canary islands which the author claims to be Proto Ural Altaic ?

[Fael]

The warrior was blond had tattoos on his body.

Since the above description is rather narrowing it down to still a rather broad area, they don't even mention how tall was he etc..

Do they have pics anywhere (found nothing)?

[Clemo]

This is a different mummy from Pazyryk. I could not find any pictures of the newest remains discovered.

[Clemo]

Same mummy as the previous post. Mummified body of a man.
Pazyryk Barrow no. 5.

This is a different mummy.Mummified head of a man.
Pazyryk barrow no. 2, 5th c. BCE


Here is a link showing many artifacts.
depts.washington.edu/silkroad/museums/shm/shmpazyryk.html

[Fael]

Thanks Clemo!